.png)
The Analytical Zen Podcast
Unveiling the Science Behind the Mystery: Exploring Forensics, Toxicology, Medicine and Health (Mind, Body and Spirit)
The Analytical Zen Podcast
From Pharmacy to Forensics
In this episode, we discuss the critical importance of detecting Delta-8 Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), Delta-9 THC and Delta-10 THC along with the challenges associated with analysing heart blood in forensic toxicology. We delve into Professor Ashraf Mozayani’s remarkable journey through the dynamic field of forensic toxicology, focusing on the impact of cannabis legalization and the challenges of postmortem forensic toxicology.
Starting as a community pharmacist in Tehran, Professor Mozayani has evolved into a distinguished forensic toxicologist in the United States and Canada, with a career that spans diverse regions and roles. She shares her invaluable experiences regarding drug diversity, court challenges and the nuances of legal processes in different countries.
Professor Mozayani highlights the complexities of detecting cannabis compounds and emphasizes the urgent need for standardized testing protocols. She also addresses the unique challenges faced in postmortem forensic toxicology including postmortem redistribution, matrix complexity and contamination issues. Throughout her career, she has balanced these professional demands with family life while demonstrating her unwavering dedication to justice reform and education.
Join us as as Professor Mozayani recounts her inspiring journey, offering a compelling perspective on overcoming cultural and professional hurdles while advancing her career across borders.
Join the conversation at The Analytical Zen Podcast! Reach out to us via email at theanalyticalzenpodcast@gmail.com.
The opinions expressed by the guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Analytical Zen Podcast.
Welcome to the Analytical Zen Podcast, where we delve into the minds of leading scientists and professionals exploring forensics, toxicology, medicine and health in terms of mind, body and spirit. I'm your host, Geraldine M Dowling. What should you expect in the Analytical Zen podcast? Well, we dive into cutting edge research and topics that inspire curiosity the latest in forensic and clinical toxicology pursuits and engaging conversations and perspectives from disciplines outside of these fields. Have you ever wondered how to manage a crime scene or what to do with the evidence? Well, our guest in this week's episode has written your go-to guides and books that cover everything from forensic lab management to investigating drug facilitated crimes.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:In her role as Professor and Executive Director of the Forensic Sciences Learning Lab at Texas Southern University, she teaches students how to properly analyze forensics data, detect potential biases and apply valid forensic science evidence to support the pursuit of justice and justice reform. Her contributions to the forensic community are endless. For over 25 years, she's been consulting with law enforcement, forensic labs, attorneys and judges. She's licensed as clinical lab director in Florida, new Jersey and Louisiana. She was also an assessor for the National Laboratory Certification Program in the United States and Canada. And listeners, what does that mean? Well, basically, she's the one making sure other scientists are doing their jobs correctly. She's been appointed by multiple Texas governors and she was a previous commission member of the Texas Forensic Science Commission. We're thrilled to have Professor Ashraf Mozayani, or Dr Mo, as our guest on the Analytical Zen podcast. Welcome.
Guest:Oh wow, thank you, Geraldine. It is a pleasure to be here.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, can you tell us about your journey as an immigrant to Canada and the United States and how you became interested in forensic toxicology?
Guest:This is going to be a long, long story, but I start from being in Tehran, Iran. After getting my doctorate in pharmacy from University of Tehran, I became a community pharmacist and shortly after that I bought my drug store. After almost seven years, I immigrated to Canada. Dreaming of building a better future for my two children, I felt a calling to further my education, so I began my PhD studies at the University of Alberta in Edmonton PhD studies rather than getting my license in pharmacy in Canada.
Guest:During my PhD, I enrolled in an elective course on forensic toxicology taught by the famous Dr Graham Jones, who was then the chief toxicologist at the Alberta Medical Examiner Office and I didn't have a clue that he was famous. As part of the course, Dr Jones arranged a tour of the toxicology lab and that experience was, for me transformative. Witnessing how a single tube of blood could reveal a mass information about the drugs and toxins in body was beyond my belief. It was at that moment I realized my passion for forensic toxicology. Soon after that visit, one of my classmates in the lab mentioned that there is an opening in this lab. I did not have my PhD yet, but I applied. I applied for the position of the lab scientist in his lab. They told me that's not going to be in Edmonton, I'd have to move to Calgary. I said yes, okay and remember my interview. He and Dr Peter Singer, his deputy that he was supposed to be my boss in Calgary were questioning me and they would keep asking me about my job in Iran and not my pharmacy job that I had as a part-time job when I was a student in a clinical lab. Anyway, that job in Iran helped me to get the job in Canada. That lab job was to set up or mimic the lab in Edmonton and make those procedures work in Calgary lab and that was a hands-on job that taught me for lifetime how the lab should be operated and why should I use controls.
Guest:About five years later now we are moving from Calgary to US. After five years later, my family and I received our green card. Believe me, I didn't remember even we applied for a green card, because the green card application was done 20 years ago by my smart sister that got a scholarship to come to MIT in US and she married here and she applied for us, but it was more than 20 years or so. Anyway, with our green cards in hand, we prepared to move again, this time to United States. And you remember I was working to come to US in about 1994. There wasn't any email or any internet. I was looking for job with phone and mail.
Guest:I applied for many, many jobs and received a lot of letters of rejections. I still kept them. I show them to my students and I got some acceptance. I had to open a map to see which cities I was supposed to go. Didn't have any clue about those cities? I knew about Las Vegas, I knew about New York, I knew about Washington DC but Oxford Mississippi, it was hard, I didn't know it. I just had to open the map to see where is Oxford Mississippi. I couldn't find it so we were not going there. It was just acceptance of job or not. That was my criteria.
Guest:The lab in Atlanta was a private lab, but the lab that I applied accepted me in Richmond. It was very similar to the lab that I was in Canada. It was a forensic lab in the Virginia Division of Forensic Science. So I accepted that lab. The lab director I remember was Dr Ferrara and my chief was Dr Valentine. These two made quite an impression in my life. I was there only two years. Dr Valentine taught me how to be prepared. For each case tried I was wondering why he studied every case that goes to court. All of them were cocaine but why he needed to just see them again and again. But he taught me why should take time. He mentioned I better become an assessor and start to move around and see other crime labs and get to know the other disciplines.
Guest:After two years I accepted another job as chief toxicologist in DC. Oh gosh, the chief toxicologist in DC sounds awesome, but that time the funding was not there. So when my boss, the chief medical examiner of DC, Dr Joy Carter, accepted the position of the chief medical examiner office in Harris County, she asked me if I wanted to go with her and be chief toxicologist and lab director. Again, still a foreigner, I didn't know where Harris County was. So I said where is Harris County? And she said in Houston. And I said oh wow, my sister is there, I am coming. It was another sister. When I talk about sisters, we are five girls, so I have a lot of sisters around. Houston was my place to stay and still I am here after more than 20 years. So that's the story.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, how did you manage to overcome these challenges? And find opportunities for mentorship and professional development.
Guest:So transitioning for us is not easy. It really is difficult, like it's not only coming from us to Canada. It was a lot of cultural adoption. I had to learn about the new culture. I didn't know very much what was happening in this profession or in the work. I just tell you one of them that really happened to me. I came to US in Canada and I'm working in the lab and I told you that I was working in the lab before so I wasn't new to the lab work.
Guest:But I never was I familiar with washing the glassware. Always we had somebody in the lab in my work washing glassware. Even in university, when I was in student, we weren't washing glassware. The glassware wasn't our job. So I left my glassware for one week, for two weeks, for three weeks in the sink. I was done. I didn't have any more and nobody was washing it.
Guest:From other laboratories people are washing their glassware themselves, something as small as that. You need to learn it and nobody will teach you. Then family adjustment when we are coming with the family, the balancing of the life and family is not easy. I remember when I started working in DC in February, it was middle of school time for my kids and I couldn't move them. I just couldn't dare even to move them to DC. I started to drive almost 160 kilometer one way every morning and coming back every afternoon from DC, from Richmond to DC and to DC to Richmond. So you have to have a lot of challenges to do it, to get this family to be sure they're comfortable as much as you can. But each of these obstacles and learning experience contributed to my growth and success in this fascinating job that I loved to do.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:I'm nodding my head here in agreement, as toxicology is a fascinating job. It gives so much to society. Can you share some of the contributions you have made to society through forensic toxicology in your career?
Guest:I dedicated my career to advancing the field through research, mentorship and international collaboration. Some of the works I did I published quite a lot. You know I published five papers from when I was in my university and I didn't barely know the language. I worked developing new toxicology screening techniques and anything that you can guess I published. For years I was a very active member of several organizations.
Guest:I am still an active member of the American Crime Laboratory Directors, very active in that organization, local organizations, Southwestern Association of Toxicologists wherever I was and The Society of Forensic Toxicology and many others.
Guest:I also had a privilege to assist in many government laboratories in different countries, such as in my role as a mentor, instructor and senior forensic advisor.
Guest:So that gave me the opportunity to know many colleagues in Thailand, Uzbekistan, Morocco, Egypt, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Turkmenistan, Belize and many others that I can't remember right now or we don't have time to do go through. . These roles I have helped with accreditation and improve the forensic quality work that they do. And many times I help to know what TIAFT is or for example by just being a sponsor for TIAFT or find another colleague to start in those countries to become a member of professional organisations, or if the country was more advanced collaborating with the scientific community. So the research I do now is more and, as you mentioned with students and we explore how forensic science can contribute to being objective in the legal process and give more accurate convictions. Our work aims to bridge the gap between scientific advancement and practical application in the criminal justice system and help students understand better from their point of
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, what are the differences that you've observed in the field of forensic toxicology between Canada and the United States?
Guest:There are a few. The variety of the drugs in the US definitely are a lot more than Canada. The diversity is partly due to large population and more extensive drug trafficking network. In Canada also, they face issues of the various drugs, but the variety tends to be slightly less broad than in the US. However, Canada still deals with significant issues related to opioid, cannabis and synthetic drugs.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:What are the differences in terms of court challenges and legal processes?
Guest:That's the same again in the United States. We have much more frequent and rigorous court challenges in the US for the admissibility and interpretation of toxicology evidence. In Canada, toxicologists don't go that much to the courtroom. I remember in my five years in Canada I remember only one time the laboratory was involved to go to the court. It wasn't me, I mean as I went with my boss. But however, in Richmond, DC or Houston they go to the court quite often like maybe three times, five times or ten times per month
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo. What are the differences you've observed in the field of forensic toxicology between Canada and the United States in terms of punishment and sentencing?
Guest:United States imposes more severe punishment for drug-related offenses compared to Canada. They give longer prison sentence and mandatory minimum sentence. In Canada there was more rehabilitative approaches to drug-related offenses with a greater emphasis on treatment over incarcerations. For example, in cannabis in the United States, cannabis varies significantly across the US. Still the people go to jail for it. In Canada it has been federally legalized for both medical and recreational use since 2018. The uniform legal status simplifies the handling of cannabis-related cases compared to US.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, how important is mentorship in the field and how have you benefited from mentoring relationships throughout your career?
Guest:I believe mentorship really plays a critical role in the development and success of a professional at all stages. I believe mentorship plays a critical role in the development and success of professionals at all stages of their career. It helps with knowledge transfer, professional development, networking opportunity, support and encouragement as well as research and publication. So generally, mentors provide emotional support, encouragement and help mentees overcome obstacles and stay motivated.
Guest:Through my career I have greatly benefited from mentoring relationships in numerous ways. However, my mentors never knew they were my mentors and I didn't know I was their mentee. Early on my career I was lucky to be trained in good lab practice and technical knowledge and get technical knowledge experience that advanced my career. I learned how to become informative, unbiased expert and how to explain in the court the issues enhancing my expertise and knowledge and improved my analytical networking opportunity taught me critical thinking skills and at the same time. I felt that I am contributing to industry standards by helping these organizations.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, can you tell us about your experiences publishing research or presenting at conferences related to forensic toxicology?
Guest:So I have published research and presented at conferences related to toxicology in the United States and many, many other countries by invitation from Manchester, Paris, London, Egypt etc. In my PhD studies, I published five papers based on my research. Subsequently, I continued my advancement with the publication of analytical methods and participated in workshops and conferences with those. My first attendance and presentation was at SOFT while I was in Canada. I applied for membership at American Academy of Forensic Science, while I was in Richmond and I became member of the American Crime Laboratory when I was in Washington DC. So I always knew that I learned a lot from these organizations.
Guest:Finally, when I settled down at Harris County, Institute of Forensic Science, I had the opportunity with my team, to change the lab in less than five years from the lab that was using a UV spectra for drug screening in post-mortem and had only one GC-MS, using it with manual injection to an accredited and the most advanced lab that I had ever worked in. That lab had cutting-edge technology in early 2000. We utilized advanced techniques such as LC-MS-MS, GC-MS-MS not just one of them but many. We consistently encountered complex and interesting cases. That provided good material for writing and further research. And now I mentioned many times at university, my emphasis is my students' research dedicated to mentorship and guiding them through their academic journey ensuring they gain knowledge and skills necessary to excel in their field.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, what advice would you give to aspiring forensic toxicologists who are immigrants and looking to establish themselves in the United States or Canada?
Guest:Okay, that's a very good question. There are several steps they can take. The first one is research the requirement for the job that they want to get or for career they want to get. Try to get a degree from these countries. That's much more understandable for everybody is when you have a degree from the countries. That's much more understandable for everybody is when you have a degree from the country and then gain experience.
Guest:Try to work as an intern in forensic labs and networking. It is much easier now to do networking than before. Try to go to the meetings. If the meetings are very expensive, go to the local meetings or regional meetings. Those are much better and you can probably get more access to networking. Another thing that I think a lot of the immigrants do not consider is getting certification. Consider obtaining your certification in forensic toxicology through American Board of Forensic Toxicology. I know if you are in the US or Canada you can apply for it and you have a background and experience. If you have those requirements and pass that exam, the workplace knows where your standing is and that will be very beneficial for you.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, what specific projects or research are you currently most excited about?
Guest:These days I get excited about research my graduate students do especially my doctoral students. Most of these students already have day jobs. They are in law enforcement, probation or different places in the government. They are working.
Guest:I can make some lists of projects that I get more excited about. For example, they are working on improving unbiased evidence collection and how to enhance the accuracy and reliability of criminal investigations. Like Canada or Ireland or other European countries, they're analyzing disparities and biases within criminal justice, such as racial, socioeconomics or gender-based inequities and developing evidence-based policies to address these systematic issues. Assessing the impact of the victim support service or community-based crime prevention initiative or improving justice and public safety or improving justice and public safety.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, in my own life I spent a good deal of time working in post-mortem forensic toxicology. In fact, I undertook some of my research for my PhD in this area. What are some of the biggest challenges in postmortem forensic toxicology today?
Guest:I think the most challenges are in the autopsy room as there is not enough support for pathologists and maybe they don't have enough support getting continuing education. But from your work you know everything with postmortem is a challenge. Getting the right specimen, that's the first thing. We keep talking about where a specimen is supposed to come from and how to test them.
Guest:But as of today, I have a case or cases in which the pathologist did not submit the right sample, did not? I mean, they just chose not to, I think, because the body was there and they had the choice to just take it. In addition the lab choose the wrong one for quantification. I mean, if you are doing quantitation, you need definitely, if there is a femoral blood or pre-antimortem blood, rather use use those ones than heart blood. But the lab chose to choose to take the heart blood for testing.. And yet these are the problem. Also generally appropriate sample collection so timely testing can be taken.
Guest:When it is not tested on time, we lose the drugs, we gain some other drugs in that same tube that's give a wrong sample result. It's not fair to anybody when we give them the wrong result. We give them a number, but that number might not be a correct number and that's hurting the justice system more than helping them. Addressing this issue through improved and standard practice using technology or good technology is critical for advancing the field and providing more accurate and reliable results in the forensic toxicology.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, what is the value, in your opinion of heart blood or femoral blood for interpretation in toxicology?
Guest:Well, with heart blood it has a lot of drugs in it. Usually for drug screening its probably is good, but if you want to quantitate something, to say how much is it, you don't want to use the heart blood. It is close to heart, a lot of post-mortem redistribution could have happened. There's a lot of leaking from the tissue to the blood. You have a high amount of the drugs in that and there was a lot of research that has been done for years and years. If the pathologists pick up the cavity blood, you know, just with the cup, pick the cavity blood and give them to the lab, that blood is contaminated, that's a contaminated blood, it's a junk blood and they need to know. The laboratory cannot clean it up. Garbage in, garbage out.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Yes, Dr Mo. Post-mortem forensic toxicology samples present several challenges in the laboratory due to the complex nature of the biological matrices and the processes that occur after death. Some of the key challenges are as follows postmortem redistribution; After death, drugs and other substances can redistribute within the body. This can result in higher or lower concentrations in different tissues and fluids, complicating the interpretation of results. Also, there's the decomposition process. This leads to the breakdown of tissues and the release of endogenous substances, which can interfere with detection and quantification of drugs and poisons. The matrix complexity is also a difficulty. Postmortem samples often include blood, urine, vitreous humor and tissues, each of which has different chemical compositions. This diversity requires multiple analytical methods to detect and quantify substances accurately. Also, we have to consider drug metabolism and stability. After death, the body's metabolic processes slow down, but some metabolism can still occur, leading to the formation of metabolites that must be accounted for in the toxicological analysis. Additionally, drugs can degrade over time, making it difficult to determine the original concentration. We also can have contamination and interference. Contaminants from the environment or the body's own decomposition products can interfere with the analytical methods, leading to false positives or negatives.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Even when substances are detected, interpreting their significance is challenging. Factors such as tolerance, postmortem redistribution and the presence of metabolites must be considered to determine whether a substance contributed to death. We also have a challenge with sampling issues. Obtaining representative samples is difficult because drug concentrations can vary between different body fluids and tissues. The choice of sampling site and method can greatly influence the results thus require forensic toxicologists to use specialised techniques and interpret results cautiously to ensure accurate and reliable findings in post-mortem investigations. In my doctorate, Dr Mo, I was developing novel methodologies to detect drugs in post-mortem blood which were later published in peer-reviewed journals and also implemented as key strategies by Irish authorities in the Republic of Ireland looking at illicit drug use among crime offenders, abusers or victims of crime. Due to challenges in post-mortem forensic toxicology, I tried to focus on developing fast analyses in order to try to get toxicology results as quickly as possible.
Guest:That is correct, that is completely correct. But you remember, just know, that sometimes they are not doing autopsy for a week too. So these are all going to affect that number.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, how do
Guest:you see field of forensic toxicology evolving over the in the next years. Wow, that's forensic toxicology we know has been significantly evolved last few years. we know that's going to be a little more even going there. It's going to be more liquid extractions will have So more coming to the laboratory. I'm have more standardization we have the lab. Standardization helps for the nationally and globally to make the labs talked in one of your better. podcasts the alternative specimen Kintz testing coming. You but oral you talk last Pascal hair testing the oral fluid is coming, we are coming and just definitely in one or two years we are going to have more more oral. right now in the clinical labs comment right now in the clinical labs Advances because in the data analysis and interpretation are going to be hopefully more Because now with this machine learning toxicology. Definitely enhance our ability to interpret is complex toxicology data and it should be definitely quality assurance and standardization again going to be more and I am sure we are as we to have increased collaboration and . It is a starting. We see a lot of their laboratories. They are putting all their materials, will to all the methods on the website and I am hoping more laboratories to do that.
Guest:We are helping and encouraging every crime lab to put their validation studies on this website and that helps our members of the crime laboratory directors to use those validation and at least they have some template to allow them more quickly to do it. None of us have time, so we need each other's helps to help us with this testing. In addition, there is a trend and growing focus that we do on site testing trend and growing focus that we do on-site testing with portable and hand held devices. We are right now at the border doing DNA testing right away. We do it. What used to take days, now we do it in two, three hours. Toxicology can be done very quickly and is done right now and it's going to be a more growing area. Overall, future of forensic toxicology looks promising, with technological advancement, improved data analysis and enhanced quality assurance driving the field forward to meet the growing demands of the criminal justice system and public health initiatives.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, how has the legalization of cannabis in various regions affected your work in forensic toxicology?
Guest:The legalization of cannabis presented both challenges and opportunity in the field of toxicology.
Guest:For us, one of the significant challenges is that we have not to. After we're detecting THC, we have to know how much it is in marijuana, because if it is more than 0.3% delta-9, it is illegal. Less than that, it is legal in some states. We have to look at the Delta-8 THC and Delta-10 THC and that's very important in the cases to look at them. That must be in the workplace right now testing and in many of the cases that we go to the court, the Delta-8 THC has to be separated from Delta-9 THC and we have to be sure which one we are taking to the courtroom.
Guest:So all of our method of analysis has been changed. In the meantime it helps us right now to present opportunity to expand our research and improve public safety and that legalization significantly impact the field of toxicology. It requires us to adopt our analytical method, expand our research, collaborate more closely with various stakeholders to ensure public safety and well-being of communities.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, what are the main forensic challenges related to cannabis, particularly in the area of impaired driving or drug-facilitated crimes?
Guest:I think it is lack of standardization of the testing protocol. The variability in testing method and interpretation across jurisdiction poses challenges for law enforcement and courts. More research is needed to develop and validate the standard field sobriety test and roadside drug screening devices that we have that we can know exactly the cannabis impairment is there. And then we must establish properly impairment threshold because, unlike the alcohol, there is no universally accepted threshold of THC at this time and we have to give more resources to the lab. Really the same thing. We changed the law they need to test more, but there is no resources, how they do that, what the method should be, what the limit of detection should be, what validation should do that and finally, educate the criminal justice profession prosecutors, defense judges, defense judges and law enforcement officers. They need training to understand the complex science behind cannabis impairment and how we have to present and interpret toxicology evidence in the court effectively.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, can you discuss the role of forensic toxicology in criminal justice reform?
Guest:Forensic toxicology can help a lot like every other forensic scientist. They can do a lot with justice reform. First of all, they have to be sure they bring validated evidence to the courtroom. That will improve interpretation and application of toxicology evidence in the court and prevent misuse or misinterpretation. We need to advocate for policy change. They can contribute by educating people, by participating in the policy discussion. They don't say it's not related to us or it is related to you. You are the scientists conducting and publishing research.
Guest:Our report goes to many, many places. The report by itself has to give all the information. The comments in the report must be correct. With the autopsy is done in two days and the blood is the femoral blood and is not matching or with the autopsy done in 20 days and the blood that we are quantitating is from heart. All must be checked. We have to know what we are talking about. So I really ask you to report it as it is. Put as much detail as you can. Tell us what you screened? What was the limit of detection for that? What was negative that's as important and what was positive? Who did it? What instrument you used? When did you do that? And just more information is helping to have a better transparency in the courtroom and the people. They know the what the result actually is.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, how can forensic science contribute to a fairer and more efficient justice system?
Guest:Just by using scientific method, technology then the forensic expert can provide objective and reliable evidence to help the case. They have to be sure that the result, whatever it is, is reliable. The scientific approach helps reduce the reliance on subjective testimonies. When we give the valid result to the court, our result is much better than the testimony of eyewitnesses. The application of forensic techniques such as DNA analysis, ballistics, toxicology can significantly assist the investigative process leading to a more successful and more efficient justice system.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, is there a nice or interesting interpretation of a forensic case you'd like to share with our listeners?
Guest:Well, in forensic toxicology, each case presents unique challenges and opportunities for learning. I remind all forensic toxicologists to maintain entrance and diligence, especially when expected drugs are absent. Just see why they are absent. Just go after that. All the drugs are present or if that drug that is present might be produced in the body. What I mean is do not accept the result because it has been detected or not detected. It is essential for us to differentiate between endogenous and exogenous compounds, particularly in post-mortem scenarios. This careful attention to detail, you have to be detail-oriented.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, outside of your professional life, what do you enjoy in your free time?
Guest:that I go with my husband sitting beside the pool or just the restaurant in that gym or hosting my family and friends at home. I am a good cook. I always say being chemists help you to be a good cook. I enjoy preparing Persian and western food. I also cherish time with my grandchildren and of course traveling to new places. I am excellent in backgammon. I am a very good backgammon player and I would love to participate in the world championships.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, I believe it's only a matter of time that you will attend the backgammon world championships and be participating in the final. What do you hope to accomplish for the next phase of your career besides this?
Guest:In the next phase of my career I am trying to encourage myself to transition into retirement and maybe write a non-scientific book and definitely attend the world championship.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, if you had one piece of advice for aspiring scientists, professionals and researchers and students, what would that be?
Guest:I say do not stop learning and collaboration and stay relevant and make meaningful contribution. We never have to stop learning because it helps us with our growth. The learning should not be formal, could be just, you know, listening to the podcast, your podcast. Learning can be done alot of ways. And then start to learn interdisciplinary and collaboration. Look at the cases holisticallyand not with just only one discipline. That helps you a lot.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, what legacy do you hope to leave behind in the field of toxicology?
Guest:As I reflect on my career, I love to put in my legacy that I did help with advancing knowledge and techniques globally. I hope my efforts in mentoring and advising forensic scientists in various countries have helped to make the forensics in those laboratory countries better. I also hope my guidance and support to my students and young professionals in the US and internationally helped them with their career and with their focus in their life and I hope my testimonies and my research contributed to criminal justice reform.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo, before we wrap up, is there anything you'd like to share with our listeners?
Guest:My final thought with the listeners is I want to remind all of you and all the forensic scientists that it is a privilege for us to work in the field and investigate the unknown. But the true reward of this work is the effect that we put in lives we are able to touch and the difference we can make. So to all forensic scientists out there, I encourage you to improve your skills and never loose sight of profound impact that you can have on the broader community. I urge you to seek out opportunities to learn, to engage and to support the critical work that is being done in forensic labs. Together we can strengthen the foundation of these critical disciplines and continue to make the world a safer, more unbiased place for all of us.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:Dr Mo. So today's conversation, I feel, surely proved why politicians keep calling you back for advice. Thanks for joining the Analytical Zen podcast and sharing your personal experience.
Guest:Thank you, Geraldine. Thank you for this wonderful opportunity. I am truly excited for what the future holds.
Dr Geraldine M. Dowling SFHEA:And to our listeners. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Analytical Zen Podcast. Be sure to join us next time. Stay curious.